Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | See parent post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 23, 2012 1:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my....zzzzz.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

;)

Have to ask: do folks actually think of this stuff as "science"? Meant seriously...This is NOT just me having a hissy fit...it's mainstream, old hat, yesterday's science:

"Gaia" is NOT a scientific theory...nor is it something even considered by scientists. Sorry, but this is, and always has been, as fringe as creationism.

Whackos, one and all. Note the consistent violations of all things dear to any post-positivist scientist: no shred of interest in anything other than gathering small anecdotes consistent with said "theory", and ignoring all the rest.

It's like Lion King Community Ecology (note, when the prey WANT to be eaten...who know, taking the weak, the sick the frail, makes the species "better"...hardy, har har! Jeeezzz).

And, once again, nothing personal, just clarification for those that don't know better.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Jun 24, 2012 6:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my....zzzzz.

I don't think it was considered science "yesterday," either.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 24, 2012 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my....zzzzz.

You can get cranky anytime w/ me because your not mean. Cranky has a side benefit of involving some name calling: fool, half wit, lost, ect..

How many post-positivist scientists w/ a year or forty of experience are out there? Few. Mass propaganda has and will continue to form this debate. How about this, creationism, Darwinism, Gaia Theory, and Intelligent Design, can all be taught in a comparative science class?

Remember WT, I stand proudly on the left side of the bell curve.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 24, 2012 2:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my....zzzzz.

Ha! Good class curriculum selections!

And thx for taking it the right way...I think you know me well enough that I can relax and stop worrying about it all...ie, me doing the wrong thing hereabouts.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jun 24, 2012 3:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Belated Gaia thoughts for Tell... zzzzz for others no doubt

As I understand it, the central underpinning of the Gaia hypothesis isn't that controversial and is fairly obvious, that being that a closed system will eventually reach a state of equilibrium. The biological and geochemical cycles running on the Earth may be a particularly complex closed system but it's surely not a surprise that given millions of years to run the various elements of the Earth system settle in to an equilibrium state with a number of self-sustaining feedback loops. What happens when any outside perturbation upsets the equilibrium depends on the size of the perturbation and the resilience of the feedback loops. A sufficiently large perturbation, such as massive and prolonged volcanic activity or an asteroid strike will likely result in a new equilibrium that is somewhat less than favourable to the larger lifeforms currently taking up residence. Releasing a few quadrillion tonnes of previously sequestrated carbon dioxide into the atmosphere might just nudge things in the wrong direction too.

So far, so uncontroversial to my mind. Where Lovelock went astray was in declaring that he 'saw the Earth as in certain ways alive' because of the systems that were maintaining the equilibrium, and in adopting William Golding's suggestion that he call his idea Gaia, which was a total gift to the less than scientifically rigorous Earth Mother greenies. I think there's an interesting idea lurking at the heart of Gaia, it's just a pity that it gets obscured by a needless and ill-judged decision to give it a supernatural persona.

Hope you're well, old friend.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 24, 2012 5:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Belated Gaia thoughts for Tell... zzzzz for others no doubt

Hey Rob! Well, I think that the more popular view, as this one, taken from Wiki, is more than just the essence you describe:

"...proposes that all organisms and their inorganic surroundings on Earth are closely integrated to form a single and self-regulating complex system, maintaining the conditions for life on the planet..."

It's these notion of "integration...regulation...for life" that is completely silly.

Should've made clear I only object to this "masses/popular" view of it, as promulgaed by those that popularized it, that make much more of these silly ideas. Some of the bare bones stuff you describe has more to do with the laws of thermodynamics and the like, and are, as you allude, relatively uninteresting.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: capsgd Date: Jun 25, 2012 10:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Belated Gaia thoughts for Tell... zzzzz for others no doubt

the equilibrium is our star going nova.

humanity went through 3 or more ice ages/global warming
was Fred Flintstones car to blame?
(I thought Fred's foot powered car was ecological)

maybe the earth is like a boxer reaching dementia
which punch was one too many-seems academic,
-and too late for the boxer.
I guess you need to break the eggs to make an omelet.
who ordered the omelet?
man-amals


Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 23, 2012 1:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my....zzzzz.

as well as to count the angels dancing on a pin...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 23, 2012 2:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my....zzzzz.

I am so predictable, eh?

;)

I bet Rob would love to chat about this--he's the perfect cynic to represent this homeland...and not nearly as narrow-minded as me.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Jun 24, 2012 7:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my.... some facts on the ground

Re: "clarification" for Micah, and "some scientific facts" - The past twelve months were the warmest twelve months in U.S. history
As of May 8, 2012, the past twelve months were the warmest twelve months in U.S. history, said NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) on May 8, 2012, in their monthly “State of the Climate” report. Temperatures in the contiguous U.S. during May 2011 – April 2012 broke the previous record for warmest 12-month period, set November 1999 – October 2000, by 0.1°F. The past twelve months have featured America’s 2nd warmest summer, 4th warmest winter, and warmest March on record. Twenty-two states were record warm for the 12-month period, and an additional nineteen states were top ten warm. NOAA said that the January – April 2012 period was also the warmest January – April period since record keeping began in 1895. The average temperature of 45.4°F during January – April 2012 was 5.4°F above the 20th century average for the period, and smashed the previous record set in 2006 by an unusually large margin – 1.6°F.
Here in Colorado, we're streaming live music sets, and some interviews, live from the Telluride Bluegrass Festival. Jerry Douglas band and Yonder Mtn String Band played smoking hot sets, and I taped them. People at TBF were seeing smoke from a new 2500 acre fire, about 30 miles sw of town. Winds shifted directions, and smoke was blowing into town there. It's being discussed by performers and DJs on the KOTO stream.

In Estes Park, a new 20 acre fire erupted yesterday nearby an entrance to Rocky Mountain Nat'l Park. Twenty-one homes burned down and were destroyed. This fire is close to the High Park Fire, about 15 or 20 miles away. RMNP remains open to the public.

The new Waldo Canyon Fire that started yesterday outside of Colorado Springs has prompted evacuations to be ordered for Manitou Springs. It has burned more than 2500 acres. Evacuations of Manitou Springs (all 5000 people) are in effect right now. 7000 people have been forced to flee their homes. This fire is getting very bad. Homes have burned. (I lived in Manitou Springs for a couple of years when I worked for Ampex.)

The new Weber Fire started burning yesterday in the four corners area of Colorado. It is over 3000 acres. This fire is getting bad.

The new Treasure Fire started burning yesterday in a wilderness outside of Leadville. High winds are a huge concern.

The Springer Fire, burning in Pike National Forest, scorched 1145 acres. Not too far from Pikes Peak, I saw the huge smoke plume from this fire the other day when I rode my bicycle to the south end of Fort Collins.

The U.S. Forest Service says the lightning-sparked Little Sand fire is now at 17,280 acres and is continuing to grow along the north fork of Sand Creek. This fire is burning in the San Juan National forest 13 miles northwest of Pagosa Springs, CO.

Meanwhile the High Park Fire, just outside of Fort Collins, exploded again Friday due to very high temperatures and low humidity. Another 1000 homes were evacuated Friday due to this inferno. At least 191 homes have been confirmed to have burned down. Over 81,200 acres have burned. These canyons are scortched earth now. Who wants to go back home to this shit?
another home outside Fort Collins burns down Friday, June 22 - this shit isn't fit for tourists or homeowners
img
Weather forecast here: 100°F temps and dry for the next several days, breaking records. Yesterday it was 104°F at Denver Int'l Airport. Fort Collins was 102°F. Colorado is burning down. These are the facts on the ground! Today is going to be pure Hell here.
20120623_101106_BusyFireDay_500.jpg


This post was modified by Monte B Cowboy on 2012-06-24 14:06:06

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 23, 2012 3:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my.... some facts on the ground

Just to be clear, I was getting cranky with micah (sorry, again, dude) bout GAIA, not global warming...in case it wasn't obvious.

I am so slow...but again, just upset with how GAIA gets tossed around outside of science still (just ask all those Permian critters about "good regulation").

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jun 24, 2012 6:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my.... some facts on the ground

!!!! :-(

Those poor people. I lived at a place once that almost burned in a forest fire (outside Boulder). I wasn't there at the time; my boyfriend saved my favorite stuffed animal. That was thoughtful.


Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 24, 2012 10:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my.... some facts on the ground

Wait a minute...this so called "stuffed animal" (I take it you were cleared of charges of over-feeding it?) was slated to experience a NATURAL extinction event, and someone played God and prevented this from happening? Did he look like elbow? It's all coming together now...hmmm...yes, conspiracies abound...was it overheated too?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Jun 24, 2012 5:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my.... some facts on the ground

drought.jpg

• According to the scientists at Texas A&M University, the Agricultural Business losses in the State of Texas due to the 2011 drought reached a record $7.62 billion. These devastating losses make This Drought the most costly drought in U.S. history, according to these updated totals produced by Texas AgriLife Extension Service economists.

“2011 was the driest year on record and certainly an infamous year of distinction for the state’s farmers and ranchers,” said Dr. David Anderson, AgriLife Extension livestock economist. “The $7.62 billion mark for 2011 is more than $3.5 billion higher than the 2006 drought loss estimates, which previously was the costliest drought on record. The 2011 losses also represent about 43 percent of the average value of agricultural receipts over the last four years.”

“No one alive has seen single-year drought damage to this extent,” said Dr. Travis Miller, AgriLife Extension agronomist and a member of the Governor’s Drought Preparedness Council. “Texas farmers and ranchers are not strangers to drought, but the intensity of the drought, reflected in record high temperatures, record low precipitation, unprecedented winds coupled with duration – all came together to devastate production agriculture.”
• May 3, 2012 - New U.S. gov't report warns of weather satellites' 'rapid decline'
A new government-sponsored report warns that the USA's ability to track tornadoes, forecast hurricanes and study climate change is about to diminish. The number and capability of weather satellites circling the planet "is beginning a rapid decline" and tight budgets have significantly delayed or eliminated missions to replace them, says a National Research Council analysis out Wednesday.

The number of in-orbit and planned Earth observation missions by NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is projected to drop "precipitously" from 23 this year to only six by 2020, the report found. That means the number of instruments monitoring Earth's activity is expected to decline from a peak of about 110 last year to fewer than 30 by the end of the decade.

Dennis Hartmann, professor of atmospheric sciences at the University of Washington, Seattle, and chair of the committee, warned that the loss of capacity will have "profound consequences on science and society, from weather forecasting to responding to natural hazards."

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 23, 2012 6:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my....zzzzz.

As a scientist, I always thought Gaia would be a great religion to follow. I am much more comfortable with mother earth as a deity than gods that look like me...or vice verse. Never really thought about it as creationism though. Gaia follows the laws of math and physics, right?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: capsgd Date: Jun 23, 2012 9:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my....zzzzz.

As a scientist?
"mother" earth? who's the 'daddy'?
lost in the metaphorest?
does Gaia "looks like you"
-pear shaped with an orbiting moon?
humanity without the humans?
isn't that anthro-poor-morphic?

math started with fingers-
don't let it stop there.





Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 24, 2012 10:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Oh, my....zzzzz.

WTF? God looks like YOU???

Why wasn't I told about this???

;)

Yeah, I think it's attributable to whacky, self app-sorbed physical scientists YET again taking over biology cause we don't have enough 2 + 2 laws and such, eh?